Moving XanaNews data to an NAS?

[Gary Mugford]

Hi all,

Good to have some place to ask XanaNews questions again. Thanks
Pieter for steering me here.

I have been splitting my time between two computers. I'm using
Quincy, the newer one for more and more things as it gets ready to move
into prime machine status. But I still have Xana on Popeye. What I'd
REALLY like to do, is to move the XanaNews off Popeye and onto one of
the various NAS's I have here. Then, I could still have Xana on Popeye,
but be able to access it on Quncy too. I'm by myself here, so it would
NOT be a case of simultaneous use, just accessing the data at whatever
machine I'm currently at. (I'm using v1.9.1.256).

So the question is ... can I run the data off the NAS? Access it from
both machines? And the sneaky one ... How do I move the data?

Yes, I'm ashamed to admit it. But moving the data from Ollie to
Popeye wasn't fun the last time and I might not have written down the
instructions that eventually worked. Anybody with a primer for an
idiot? I certainly qualify.

Thanks again, GM

[Q Correll]

Gary,

Did you try : Files => Move Messagebase ?

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Gary Mugford
So the question is ... can I run the data off the NAS?

That should be possible, but it might be a little slower compared to an internal HDD.

Post by Gary Mugford
Access it from both machines?

Do you use the registry or a XML file to store the settings? If you do use the registry you can't use it from both machines, when using a XML-file you can use the same method as for using XN on an USB-stick.

Post by Gary Mugford
And the sneaky one ... How do I move the data?

Don't start moving the data yet :)

Post by Gary Mugford
Yes, I'm ashamed to admit it. But moving the data from Ollie to
Popeye wasn't fun the last time and I might not have written down
the instructions that eventually worked. Anybody with a primer for
an idiot? I certainly qualify.

Jeff Gains wrote them down for you a couple of years ago, but I don't think this will be enough this time for what you want to do :)

[Gary Mugford]

Post by Pieter Zijlstra

Post by Gary Mugford
So the question is ... can I run the data off the NAS?

That should be possible, but it might be a little slower compared to an internal HDD.

Post by Gary Mugford
Access it from both machines?

Do you use the registry or a XML file to store the settings? If you
do use the registry you can't use it from both machines, when using a
XML-file you can use the same method as for using XN on an USB-stick.

Post by Gary Mugford
And the sneaky one ... How do I move the data?

Don't start moving the data yet :)

Post by Gary Mugford
Yes, I'm ashamed to admit it. But moving the data from Ollie to
Popeye wasn't fun the last time and I might not have written down
the instructions that eventually worked. Anybody with a primer for
an idiot? I certainly qualify.

Jeff Gains wrote them down for you a couple of years ago, but I don't
think this will be enough this time for what you want to do :)

Pieter,

Okay, an afternoon of fun has me almost there. I DID follow Q's
instructions to move the file up to the NAS. The movement process
through me for a bit when it didn't list my mapped network drives, but
by going to My Network Places and using absolute reference, I was able
to get the data moved. As you say, the results are a bit slower, but I
can live with it.

Unfortunately, in fooling around with things I hit the purge button.
That meant restoring the data (Backups are good). I wanted to find the
export settings command. No luck. So, I basically did a go through on
the options page and did the same on Quincy as I had set on Popeye. I
did it from the BOTTOM up, which was, of course, idiotic. And one
setting, a colour setting for the grid in the message pane, did not
translate well.

But, the version on Quincy wouldn't load the data from the NAS any
way I could find. So I did a registry key save and then merge on
Quincy. That worked. Although I had to correct the colour issue again.

So what I have is a database that both computers will access for
reading purposes. IF the other one is up, doing any internet access
will result in failure. Since that's a situation I suspect will be rare
enough not to worry about, I think the transfer has been accomplished.
Thank you Pieter and Q.

I would like to know the XML method. While it's unlikely Quincy will
give way to some future Rocky any time soon, it might be nice to get
ready for it.

Now, not everything is roses of course. For the last little while
KBM, ESB and Scalabrium have been in accessible to me. The ESB case is,
I believe, an issue with a newly-needed password to access the site. I
remember getting an email from Glenn about spam and the new need for
one. KBM is a long-standing fallout over the server crash that caused
so many forums to go down (and, in some cases, permanently down). But
Scalabrium is a fairly new issue. None of these is important.

But after the transfer, I now have an issue with my Delphi forums. I
have a password to Embarcadero and have input username and password.
But nothing. Nada. Unchecking the use password box doesn't solve it
either. I'm using forums.embarcadero.com.

Any ideas?

Thanks for your continued hard work to save the world from idiots.

GM

[Q Correll]

Gary,

| I'm using forums.embarcadero.com.
|
| Any ideas?

Are you sure you're using the/a correct "Identity" for accessing the
Delphi forums?

I had to make an Identity for Embarcadero that matched my Embarcadero
EDN login. No one probably notices that in the EMB forums I am
"Quentin Correll" but elsewhere I am "Q Correll."

Pieter can probably provide better help than I. <g>

[Q Correll]

Gary,

| I think the transfer has been accomplished.
| Thank you Pieter and Q.

Looks like you had a "fun" time. ;-)

[Gary Mugford]

Post by Q Correll
Gary,

Post by Gary Mugford
I think the transfer has been accomplished.
Thank you Pieter and Q.

Looks like you had a "fun" time. ;-)

Okay, here's the latest. I'm confused. Surprised? Shouldn't be.

My Delphi issue was apparently the password. Doing the registry merge
apparently didn't copy the password correctly. So, now I don't get a
message about not being able to connect when trying to login. I
discovered this because doing a message fetch on the Windows XP Popeye
worked.

And since I was there, I went through and clicked all the messages to
read, newsgroup by newsgroup. I figured I'd get a fresh start. The
groups I can't get to, I minimized in the Groups tree, as a reminder to
go back and deal with them in the future. I then closed Xana on Popeye
and moved over to Quincy, which runs Windows 7.

It was as if I did not work on Popeye at all. All the newsgroups were
expanded and all showed unread messages ... the ones that I had just
marked as read on Popeye. And, for whatever reasons, right-clicking and
choosing mark as all read was about 90 percent a failure. Even for
relatively small messages databases like this Xana one. All in all, I'm
wondering if this experiment is at all a good idea. There's been a lot
of work involved for little benefit. And nothing about the Win7
experience on Quincy has been positive. (and I'm not just talking about
Xana, but that's another whine for a different time and group).

Obviously, the message read counters are stored in the registry.
Duhhhh! But that's really, really not satisfactory. If either you or
Pieter could steer me towards XML storage of stuff, I would be greatly
appreciative. That's the way this going to work, IF it's going to work.
Otherwise, I think I might have to move the database to someplace local
on Quincy and see if having it local and away from the pernicious
influence of Popeye might resolve things.

Best laid plans and all.

Thanks, GM

[Q Correll]

Gary,

| If either you or Pieter could steer me towards XML storage of stuff,
| I would be greatly appreciative.

At this point I am going to defer to Pieter as I have never once messed
with the "XML stuff."

Aren't 'puters "fun?" ;-)

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Gary Mugford
Obviously, the message read counters are stored in the registry.
Duhhhh! But that's really, really not satisfactory.

Indeed that won't work if your settings are stored in the registry.

Post by Gary Mugford
If either you or Pieter could steer me towards XML storage of stuff,
I would be greatly appreciative. That's the way this going to work,
IF it's going to work.

1) Restore a backup on your original machine where XanaNews was working (Popeye).

2) Start XanaNews and goto File -> Export Compressed Messages
o In there rightclick and use Select All NewsGroups.
o Make sure Export XanaNews Settings is on.
o Enter a filename and press Save.

3) Close/Exit XanaNews.

4) Create a directory on the NAS and name it XanaNews
o Copy the necessary application files to it:
. NewsReader.exe
. NewNews.wav
. XanaNews.chm
. Optional in case of SSL:
- libeay32.dll
- ssleay32.dll
. Other optional files:
- Quotes.txt
o Within this new XanaNews directory create a sub-directory called
MessageBase.

5) Within that same directory create a batch file and name it XanaNews.bat
Edit it and add the following line.
start NewsReader3.exe -ns -XMLSettings:.\XanaNews.xml

6) Start the batch file.
o It will open with the Welcome screen, fill in your name and
email address and press Next.
o fill in a server name and account for instance
forums.embarcadero.com and press Next.
o no need to fill the rest in (will imported later), so
press 2 x Next and then OK.

XanaNews will now start up with just one news account and should show a list of available newsgroups. Ignore this and press OK.


7) Use File -> Import compressed message and select the file with the
compressed messages and press Open.
(everything will be restored to the default MessageBase location).

8) Use File -> Move Messagebase...
o Select Custom Location and Browse to the MessageBase directory
you have just created within in the XanaNews directory.

9) Close/Exit XanaNews.

10) Edit the XanaNews.xml file (you can use Notepad for this but there
are other/better editors)
- Locate the Messagebase_Directory entry it should looks something
this: <Messagebase_Directory>C:\XanaNews\MessageBase</Messagebase_Directory>
- Change the first part "C:\XanaNews" in to a "." to make it a relative path:
<Messagebase_Directory>.\MessageBase</Messagebase_Directory>
- Save the file and restart XanaNews by using the batch file from now on.


From you other machine you should now be able to use the same batch file on the NAS to run XanaNews (just make sure you only use if from machine at a time).

[Q Correll]

Pieter,

Whew!!!

Good job!

[Gary Mugford]

Post by Pieter Zijlstra

Post by Gary Mugford
Obviously, the message read counters are stored in the registry.
Duhhhh! But that's really, really not satisfactory.

Indeed that won't work if your settings are stored in the registry.

Post by Gary Mugford
If either you or Pieter could steer me towards XML storage of
stuff, I would be greatly appreciative. That's the way this going
to work, IF it's going to work.

1) Restore a backup on your original machine where XanaNews was
working (Popeye).
2) Start XanaNews and goto File -> Export Compressed Messages
o In there rightclick and use Select All NewsGroups.
o Make sure Export XanaNews Settings is on.
o Enter a filename and press Save.
3) Close/Exit XanaNews.
4) Create a directory on the NAS and name it XanaNews
. NewsReader.exe
. NewNews.wav
. XanaNews.chm
- libeay32.dll
- ssleay32.dll
- Quotes.txt
o Within this new XanaNews directory create a sub-directory called
MessageBase.
5) Within that same directory create a batch file and name it
XanaNews.bat Edit it and add the following line.
start NewsReader3.exe -ns -XMLSettings:.\XanaNews.xml
6) Start the batch file.
o It will open with the Welcome screen, fill in your name and
email address and press Next.
o fill in a server name and account for instance
forums.embarcadero.com and press Next.
o no need to fill the rest in (will imported later), so
press 2 x Next and then OK.
XanaNews will now start up with just one news account and should show
a list of available newsgroups. Ignore this and press OK.
7) Use File -> Import compressed message and select the file with the
compressed messages and press Open.
(everything will be restored to the default MessageBase location).
8) Use File -> Move Messagebase...
o Select Custom Location and Browse to the MessageBase directory
you have just created within in the XanaNews directory.
9) Close/Exit XanaNews.
10) Edit the XanaNews.xml file (you can use Notepad for this but there
are other/better editors)
- Locate the Messagebase_Directory entry it should looks something
<Messagebase_Directory>C:\XanaNews\MessageBase</Messagebase_Directory>
- Change the first part "C:\XanaNews" in to a "." to make it a
<Messagebase_Directory>.\MessageBase</Messagebase_Directory> -
Save the file and restart XanaNews by using the batch file from now
on.
From you other machine you should now be able to use the same batch
file on the NAS to run XanaNews (just make sure you only use if from
machine at a time).

Pieter,

Apparently, even a blind and dumb squirrel can occasionally find
nuts. I know have Xana working on both machines. It's still not
perfect, but more of that later.

I, of course, screwed up your detailed instructions. The MessageBase
move should have been done from Popeye, but I switched to Quincy to
test out the batch file and then did the move from there. The forums
all came up with the right number of messages in the tree, but no
actual messages. Sighhhh! On the other hand, having a bazillion backups
helped me get over the immediate thought of downloading years of
messages again. Copied them over into the MessageBase folder you had me
create and things were a lot better immediately. By the way, I couldn't
use the browser to point to the NAS location, even though it was
another folder on the same drive. Told me I didn't have permission!!
So, I just hand-edited the field with the name and it worked.

The XML editing was a little different, since I had a registry
setting on both machines pointing to the absolute reference version of
the NAS folder. I had to edit in .\MessageBase. But having cleared that
hurdle and doing the copy of the backed up data, XanaNews worked.

Until I tried downloading Embarcadero. Still worked on Popeye, got a
Queued message when trying it on Quincy. Grrrrrr!! The first time I ran
it Sandboxie had popped up, but I told it to run the batch file
normally and not to ask again. So, I shut down Sandboxie completely. No
luck. I started looking around for other interfering programs, although
the only thing they were interfering with was the one newsgroup I used
a password for. Finally, I did figure it out. Peerblock. I'd forgot I
still had it on the WIn7 machine. I uninstalled it and Quincy now gets
messages from Embarcadero (or Clear Blue as Peerblock described it).
Now that I know, I will probably re-install it and make particular
exceptions for the Embarcadero site(s).

What's worse is that NOW I remember, I had this EXACT SAME PROBLEM
when switching from Ollie to Popeye. ARRRGGGGHHH!!!! Guess I'll have to
make use of that Evernote I've had clogging up the SysTray for the last
three months.

I would like to get rid of the confirmation dialog running the batch
file (it happens on both), but that's future fluffery.

The remaining issue seems insolvable. The window size and placement
in the XML file cannot, I believe, handle the fact that Quincy uses two
1600x1200 monitors in portrait mode. Popeye runs two 2000x1158 monitors
and the placement on each computer isn't consistent with the other, in
origin and in dimensions. Unless I would want to run a single 1200x1158
window in the upper left hand corner of both computers (and I don't), I
have to resize after each 'foreign' use. No way around it I can see,
and the solution is the slightest of bothers.

So, congratulations are in order. You've done it!

Thanks, GM

[Q Correll]

Gary,

Congrats to you, too! I admire your perseverance. <g>

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Gary Mugford
I would like to know the XML method. While it's unlikely Quincy will
give way to some future Rocky any time soon, it might be nice to get
ready for it.

Didn't try it for a while but IIRC the following should work:

1) Make a backup of your MessageBase and registry settings, just to be
sure.

2) Start up XanaNews using the registry settings:
File -> Export compressed message, select everything including "Export
XanaNews settings"

3) Start up XanaNews using the XML file [1] and then use:
File -> Import compressed message
(everything will be restored to the default MessageBase location)

After that, move the MessageBase to the desired location.

[1] "NewsReader3.exe" "-XMLSettings:XanaNews.xml"

Post by Gary Mugford
Now, not everything is roses of course. For the last little while
KBM, ESB and Scalabrium have been in accessible to me. The ESB case is,
I believe, an issue with a newly-needed password to access the site. I
remember getting an email from Glenn about spam and the new need for
one. KBM is a long-standing fallout over the server crash that caused
so many forums to go down (and, in some cases, permanently down). But
Scalabrium is a fairly new issue. None of these is important.

AFAIK news.scalabium.com no longer exists.

For ESB you'll need to create an account:
http://esb.newsgrouphosting.com/Users/Signup.aspx

Not sure about KBM.

Post by Gary Mugford
But after the transfer, I now have an issue with my Delphi forums. I
have a password to Embarcadero and have input username and password.
But nothing. Nada. Unchecking the use password box doesn't solve it
either. I'm using forums.embarcadero.com.
Any ideas?

Even without a username/password you should have read-only access.

What issue do you see with the EMBT forum?

[Gary Mugford]

Post by Pieter Zijlstra

Post by Gary Mugford
I would like to know the XML method. While it's unlikely Quincy will
give way to some future Rocky any time soon, it might be nice to get
ready for it.

1) Make a backup of your MessageBase and registry settings, just to be
sure.
File -> Export compressed message, select everything including "Export
XanaNews settings"
File -> Import compressed message
(everything will be restored to the default MessageBase location)
After that, move the MessageBase to the desired location.
[1] "NewsReader3.exe" "-XMLSettings:XanaNews.xml"

Post by Gary Mugford
Now, not everything is roses of course. For the last little while
KBM, ESB and Scalabrium have been in accessible to me. The ESB case
is, I believe, an issue with a newly-needed password to access the
site. I remember getting an email from Glenn about spam and the new
need for one. KBM is a long-standing fallout over the server crash
that caused so many forums to go down (and, in some cases,
permanently down). But Scalabrium is a fairly new issue. None of
these is important.

AFAIK news.scalabium.com no longer exists.
http://esb.newsgrouphosting.com/Users/Signup.aspx
Not sure about KBM.

Post by Gary Mugford
But after the transfer, I now have an issue with my Delphi forums. I
have a password to Embarcadero and have input username and password.
But nothing. Nada. Unchecking the use password box doesn't solve it
either. I'm using forums.embarcadero.com.
Any ideas?

Even without a username/password you should have read-only access.
What issue do you see with the EMBT forum?

Pieter,

Thanks for the XML creation instructions. Will try that later today.

The Scalabrium (notice my mis-spelling) newsgroup I was monitoring
was for the turbocontrols stuff, specifically Orpheus, one of the two
libs I still use. Although I am trying to cut Orpheus out. I do find
the IniReg unit very easy to use and I still prefer Ini files over reg
for reasons like the one I'm currently having. Old dogs like their few
tricks, I guess.

I did dig out Glenn's email and followed its intstructions. But
thanks for double-confirming it.

As referred to in an earlier message, the problem appeared to be that
the passwords didn't move over correctly in the reg file merge.
Understandable I guess. Different version of Windows with different
encoding and all. Entering the passwords afresh seems to allow me to
get TO Embarcadero. But there's no downloading going on, on Quincy.
Works perfectly fine with Popeye.

Thanks for all your work, GM

[Q Correll]

Gary,

| Although I am trying to cut Orpheus out.

Don't make too hasty a decision.

I find that NOTHING ELSE does many of the things I use and need from
Orpheus4! Roman Kassebaum et al are doing a pretty darn good job of
keeping O4 working well in the XE environment.

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Q Correll

Post by Gary Mugford
Although I am trying to cut Orpheus out.

Don't make too hasty a decision.
I find that NOTHING ELSE does many of the things I use and need from
Orpheus4! Roman Kassebaum et al are doing a pretty darn good job of
keeping O4 working well in the XE environment.

Is this on sourceforge or googlecode?

[Rudy Velthuis]

Post by Pieter Zijlstra

Post by Q Correll

Post by Gary Mugford
Although I am trying to cut Orpheus out.

Don't make too hasty a decision.
I find that NOTHING ELSE does many of the things I use and need from
Orpheus4! Roman Kassebaum et al are doing a pretty darn good job of
keeping O4 working well in the XE environment.

Is this on sourceforge or googlecode?

On sourceforge, IIRC.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/tporpheus/

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Rudy Velthuis

Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Is this on sourceforge or googlecode?

On sourceforge, IIRC.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tporpheus/

Based on the names I see in that link that seems to be the one.

I thought I remembered there were multiple initiatives at one point to keep it alive, so I wasn't sure what would be the best location to start looking for more recent versions.

[Q Correll]

Pieter,

| I thought I remembered there were multiple initiatives at one point
| to keep it alive, so I wasn't sure what would be the best location to
| start looking for more recent versions.

You remember correctly. However, they relatively quickly coalesced
into the SourceForge project.

[Q Correll]

Pieter,

| | I find that NOTHING ELSE does many of the things I use and need
| | from Orpheus4! Roman Kassebaum et al are doing a pretty darn good
| | job of keeping O4 working well in the XE environment.
|
| Is this on sourceforge or googlecode?

SourceForge.

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Gary Mugford
Thanks for the XML creation instructions. Will try that later today.

I've just posted more detailed instructions somewhere else in this thread :).

Post by Gary Mugford
As referred to in an earlier message, the problem appeared to be that
the passwords didn't move over correctly in the reg file merge.
Understandable I guess.

Normally this should work, except for some special characters.

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Gary Mugford
KBM is a long-standing fallout over the server crash that caused
so many forums to go down (and, in some cases, permanently down).

Do you mean this one: news.components4developers.com that one appears to work fine here.

[Gary Mugford]

Post by Pieter Zijlstra

Post by Gary Mugford
KBM is a long-standing fallout over the server crash that caused
so many forums to go down (and, in some cases, permanently down).

Do you mean this one: news.components4developers.com that one appears to work fine here.

Pieter,

I haven't got any new articles since mid-February. I get the Getting
Articles for Kbmmemtable message and the .faq group is queued. And
nothing happens. And I've let it run for an hour just in the off-chance
it might be incredibly busy. Nada. And just in case there was an
invisible character somewhere in my server string, I copied and pasted
from your message. Same result.

And heck, I renewed at Christmas. It's not like I (was) a deadbeat
customer.

GM (as confused as ever)

[Pieter Zijlstra]

Post by Gary Mugford

Post by Pieter Zijlstra

Post by Gary Mugford
KBM is a long-standing fallout over the server crash that caused
so many forums to go down (and, in some cases, permanently down).

Do you mean this one: news.components4developers.com that one appears
to work fine here.

Pieter,
I haven't got any new articles since mid-February. I get the Getting
Articles for Kbmmemtable message and the .faq group is queued. And
nothing happens. And I've let it run for an hour just in the off-chance
it might be incredibly busy. Nada. And just in case there was an
invisible character somewhere in my server string, I copied and pasted
from your message. Same result.
And heck, I renewed at Christmas. It's not like I (was) a deadbeat
customer.

JFTR I only have access to the public groups (assuming that there are also private groups).

in c.p.kbmmemtable I do have 11394 posts and the most recent thread is from yesterday/today with an answer from Kim (today).

It also has a test group. I've just redownloaded all 94 message from it by using rightclick -> Get Messages -> *Get All Messages.
Does this work from your side?